In browsing through online media coverage of this year's Super Bowl, I stumbled along something that caught my eye. Those that know me pretty well, know my fondness for creating lists and rankings things. On ESPN's site they had one of these Sports Nations polls where you could vote upon who you thought were the best Super Bowl winning Quarterbacks of all-time. Sign me up for that one. Well of course I spent the next 90 minutes researching about the QB's with whom's statistics I was unfamiliar with. Names such as Bart Star, Len Dawson, Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, and Bob Griese, just to name a few. What really struck my eye was the low percentage that some of these guys completed passes at and how some QB's had even thrown more interceptions in their career than TD's and yet were first ballot Hall of Famer's and multiple Super Bowl winners.
Some particular names that were interesting to look at were Bradshaw (51.9% completions, 212 TD's-210 Int. for the career) and yet he won 4 Super Bowls and was a first ballot Hall of Famer. Another interesting name of note whose statistics did not match up to the legendary status to which he is revered is Joe Namath (50.1%, 173 TD's-220 Int.), but got into the H.O.F. on his 3rd try. There were others who had "poor" stats but managed to win Super Bowls and eventually get elected to the Hall of Fame. These kind of things make sports fun and so intriguing. What is it that these guys do to put up crappy numbers, but yet find ways to make plays and win when it matters the most? It brings up interesting discussions of who was better Terry Bradshaw or Roger Staubach? Joe Montana or John Elway? Where does Dan Marino or Jim Kelly fit in (guys who never won the big one)? Yet guys such as Trent Dilfer, or Doug Williams, or Earl Morrall have rings on their fingers. It is an ongoing debate of who is considered the best of the best, the true elite guys. I think to be among consideration for the best of all time, you need to have won multiple titles and had some strong Pro-Bowl/MVP type of seasons in your career.
I am not going to go through and rank the all-time guys. I just wanted to create a list of the guys who had won multiple Super Bowl titles:
Joe Montana (4 Super Bowl wins)
Terry Bradshaw (4 SB wins)
Troy Aikman (3 SB wins)
Tom Brady (3 SB wins)
John Elway (2 Super Bowl wins, 5 total appearances- most all-time)
Bart Starr (2 SB wins, 3 NFL titles prior to Super Bowls being played)
Roger Staubach (2 wins)
Jim Plunkett (2 wins)
Bob Griese (2 wins)
Ben Roethlisberger (2 wins)
10 guys that is it. Everyone is in the H.O.F. except for Plunkett and the 2 active guys Brady and Roethlisberger.
The point I am trying to make with this post is to try to make myself realize the importance of clutchness in big time games and trying to wrap my head around what exactly clutchness entails and how do I put it into the proper historical context. Super Bowl's are not the end all be all of determining who the best is, after all this is a team game. Is Doug Williams better than Dan Marino or Jim Kelly because he won a Super Bowl and they did not? We know the answer to that one. Super Bowl/NFL titles really serve as the tie-breakers, I feel, for determining the "eliteness" of these signal callers. By winning titles, John Elway essentially breaks the tie with Dan Marino whose regular season numbers are fairly similar. It is what is breaking the tie between Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. If Manning can get that 2nd ring than we can bring the discussion back up again but as long as Brady sits at 3 and Manning at 1 than that discussion has ended in my mind. It has taken me awhile to realize that because by most accounts Peyton Manning may be the best regular season QB we have seen this side of Marino. I have had to rely on stats to tell the stories for me when I evaluate different players with whom I barely remember seeing play. You can do that more so in baseball but not in football where there is far more teamwork involved and so many different components involved as well. Which makes the case for Ben Roethlisberger intriguing to me.
Approximately two weeks ago I posted an article ranking my top 5 QB's in 2010-2011 NFL. To review I had 1)Brady, 2)P. Manning, 3)Brees, 4)Roethlisberger, 5)Phil Rivers with Aaron Rodgers being the next man up.
This Super Bowl I feel will help set the stage for how we will be evaluating this next generation of QB's and may be setting up future battles in the years to come as Manning and Brady continue on towards the 2nd half of their careers. The list you see above will change by 48 hours from now, I am nearly certain of this. Just by appearing in this game, I think Roethlisberger moves up to 3 and depending on how he plays may move into the top 2. Rodgers, who is sitting at 6 on my list, will move into the top 5. He is not there already because I did not want to prematurely crown him as so many have done already. Look, he has got all the tools you want (strong arm, leadership, mobility in and out of the pocket), he just lacks experience. If he plays well he will slide ahead of Brees for sure, dropping Brees down to 5 if both guys play well. Rodgers may even jump Roethlisberger as well. He will not jump Manning, simply because of the experience and the consistency factor. If Rodgers can duplicate this kind of season again in 2011 than I will bring up again for discussion. That is what is at stake for the two signal callers leading two of the most proud and respected franchises in the NFL. The Steelers will be going for their unprecedented 7th Super Bowl title, the Packers will be going for their 4th. Super Bowls stand the test of time. People remember certain games by how well the men in them played. Super Bowl III is known for Joe Namath, Bradshaw is known for all 4 of those titles he won. The performances in these games overshadows, and rightfully so, the regular season performances of these guys.
To steal from the Big 10 (now the Big 12) this is where "Legends" and "Leaders" are born.
Steelers 27 Packers 24
MB
i think your list is valid is you are just going on stats. Peyton Manning will be a first ballot hof'er. his stats will dwarf any other qb in the hall. But, his inability to win the big game consistently, drops him down the ladder. Big Ben has won more big games than manning, and will win his third Super Bowl. Manning chokes more in the big games. He threw more key interceptions in title games than anyone I know.
ReplyDeletethe classic guys won for many reasons: Bradshaw won the big games, had average stats, but won when he got there. Namath did what no one ever had done before, he told the world the Jets would win, and thats a huge moment in time when the AFL NFL merger was just the beginning. thats a classic moment no matter his stats. great moments are recorded in all of the sports hall of fames. some are elected for their feats.
I always felt the list goes like this-
brady, ben, peyton, brees, rivers. rodgers will pass rivers if he wins. but that wont happen.
the qb is the most important position in sports. more so that the pitcher is in baseball. the pitcher isnt being attacked while throwing pitches. makes being a qb a whole different ballgame.
good work, matty b!